June 28, 2005: Generations -- First Impressions

As I had attended the first show of the 30th Anniversary/Generations Tour, I was one of the first Journey fans to have a complete copy of the new Generations CD that was given out to fans attending shows that summer (Frontiers Records which was releasing the album had made samples available online prior to release.) Since the opening show was in Southern California and I live in Northern California, I had ample opportunity to listen to the new CD and thus report back to my fellow fans what I thought of it. Here's what I wrote.

 

Well, after about a dozen spins between the end of the show Sunday and arriving home after 8 hours in the car I've formed a few thoughts on the new CD.

First -- this is not your mother's Journey! This album rocks and rocks and rocks some more -- it's a much harder sound than we've been used to. The trademarks are still there, but if you're expecting something similar to Arrival or Escape, look somewhere else. The closest I can think of on this is Frontiers and only because of the departure that album was from Escape, and then only half!

Of the 12 tracks, there are 3 true ballads, but even they are unlike any others. I've always hated the term "power ballad", but the best way I can describe these songs is that there is more power too them -- stronger guitars and drums.

Right now, my favorite tracks are "The Place in Your Heart" and "A Better Life" -- both are just sticking in my head like nobody's business. Deen has the lead on "A Better Life", but it took me a minute to figure that out the first time I heard it -- I knew it wasn't Steve, but it didn't sound like Deen sounding like Perry. Actually, NO ONE sounds like Perry on this and with that constraint removed, this sounds like a new band.

A quick track by track run through:

"Faith in the Heartland" (Schon/Cain/Augeri) -- has about a 30 second instrumental intro before kicking in. The sample provided through Frontiers is the opening of the song and is a good representation of the song. At nearly 7 minutes though, this isn't a radio-friendly tune -- the end would have to be edited out, which would be a shame as there's a nice solo by Neal and some very cool drums going on.

"The Place in Your Heart" (Schon/Cain) -- This is a more radio-friendly tune in my opinion and a more Journey-esque song than some of the other tracks. Again, the sample from Frontiers is a good representation. The chorus is catchy and is totally stuck in my head. Has that great synthesis of Neal's blazing guitar and Jon's cool piano that I've always been impressed by.

"A Better Life" (Schon/Cain) -- A mid-tempo semi-ballad with Deen providing some fantastic vocals. A song about a couple struggling to get by, but in that "we can do anything if we're together" mode. Right now, it's making me think a lot about my parents who were "high school sweethearts" who've had a few bumps along the way, but will be celebrating their 40th anniversary this summer and are enjoying retirement and "a better life" now.

"Every Generation" (Cain/Schon) -- Jon takes lead on this one. I can't help but wonder if the "Na na na na na/Na na na na na/Na na na na na na" bit at the end was deliberate because it's cracking me up. Don't worry folks, it's not another "na-na wave" slow bit, but much more rapid fire. Sounds very much like something off of one of Jon's solo recordings (the vocal ones.)

"Butterfly [She Flies Alone]" (Augeri) -- A ballad that has a Tall Stories feel to it. A very strong showing from Steve. I just wish I could remember which Tall Stories song it reminds me of...

"Believe" (Augeri/DeRossi) -- With the "I Believe in you/Believe in me" chorus I would have sworn this was straight out of the standard book of Journey themes Neal and Jon must have at home, so I was surprised to see it's Steve's! Seven years in Journey, it must rub off!

"Knowing That You Love Me" (Cain) -- Without even looking at the credits I knew this was one of Jon's. Another ballad that is lyrically very much along the same lines as the ballads from Arrival, though with a definite emphasis on the "power" part of "power ballad." Bigger drums, bigger guitars, bigger backing vocals (with some amazing harmonies.) There is one image I find a little odd, but I let you all find that for yourselves.

"Out of Harms Way" (Schon/Cain) -- Wow... this one I wasn't so sure about from the clip on Melodicrock.com, but live it was amazing. Upon closer examination, I was surprised by the contemporary issues in this song. Journey's never been one to make much in the way of specific issues in their songs, but this tale of a soldier sent overseas to fight hit a bit close to home. With a cousin who was in Iraq for 6 months and my sister in law's brother dealing with PTSD from spending a year over there, this one hits me on a bunch of different levels.

"In Self-Defense" (Schon/Cain) -- Yes, I have the title correct -- right off the CD. This re-make of "Self Defense" from Schon and Hammer may as well be a new song to me. It's familiar sounding, but it's been so long since I listened to the original I really can't remember it. Neal's vocals on this are crisper than live, but that is often the case with recording.

"Better Together" (Schon/Cain/Augeri) -- Not sure how to describe this rocker. It reminds me of something, but I'm not just sure what. Perhaps a little Bad English and a little Tall Stories?

"Gone Crazy" (N. Schon/A. Schon/Cain/Tribble) -- The most non-Journey like song on the disk. Ross has the lead on this boogie-bluesy rocker. It's really hard to describe! I like it, I'm just not sure what it is. Appropriately, there is a sense of humor about it. Again Ross's vocals sound different recorded than live. I think the strangeness of having such a low vocal on a Journey song is part of the puzzlement.

"Beyond the Clouds" (Schon/Augeri) -- A prototypical Journey ballad, but with more oomph to it. Neal's solo is one of the most melodic things I've heard and is just a signature sound -- no one but Neal could play that. You get the sense of soaring when you hear it and you are beyond the clouds....

Now, off to figure out the lyrics to all these new tunes!

June 2005: The Unfinished Frontiers Review

August 1, 2014: As a contributing author to the JourneyDigest.com website, I was asked to write a couple of album reviews. In digging through my archives, I found this article which seems to have been the start of a review of "Frontiers." I don't know why it wasn't finished (or even if it was finished and lost), but I thought I'd include this with the other items I've uncovered for this archive.

 

Ba-da ba-da ba-da-da-da, Ba-da ba-da ba-da-da-da…

Instantly recognizable, the opening notes to “Separate Ways” ushers in Journey’s memorable follow up to the multi-platinum selling album Escape. Frontiers came out hot on the heels of the band’s biggest selling album, and with that kind of success it had to come out of the box on fire, lest all the momentum that had finally built into the peak of success come crashing to a halt. Journey’s ace in the hole was “Separate Ways” – a song they had debuted during the Escape tour. It was the first single off the album, and reached number eight on the charts seven weeks later.

I don’t remember where or when I bought Frontiers – I do know I got it as soon as I could find the ten bucks and a ride to the mall, not always an easy combination when you’re a freshman in high school. I don’t really remember the first time I put it on the turntable, plugged in the headphones, and sat down on the couch to listen to it. I do remember being amazed by how furious Neal’s guitar playing was, and not entirely sure I liked the album after that first spin. I was definitely more in the ballad/mid-tempo category at that point in time. Of course, the album also contained “Faithfully” – at 14 that was reason enough for me to call it a winner. It was the perfect daydreaming song.

Perhaps what was so difficult after that first listen was just how different side two was from side one. With continuous playing on CDs, we’ve lost one of the best features found on LPs – the ability to have two entirely different sounds on the same album. Side one of Frontiers is more pop-oriented and contains all the singles, side two the more challenging complex sounds that wouldn’t have succeeded on Top 40 radio. These are songs with an edge. Listening to this album on CD, the gear strip your brain goes through when “Faithfully” ends side one and side two begins with “Edge of the Blade” is completely jarring. On LP this transition was smoother since you would have to get up and turn the album over, and those few seconds made a big difference in how the album sounded.

So, how best to look at this album in 2005? It certainly holds up and doesn’t sound too dated, due mostly to Neal’s furious guitar work. I was surprised when I looked over the credits that Neal did not have a single songwriting credit on the four singles that were released (“Separate Ways”, “Faithfully”, “After the Fall”, and “Send Her My Love.”)

“Back Talk.” This was probably the song that most made me want to skip side two back in 1983. I absolutely could not stand it, yet there it was, smack dab in the middle of side two – impossible to skip over without an effort. I did not want to hear my favorite band singing lyrics that sounded like a pissed off parent. Heck, it was bad enough dealing with my own parents! It took me 14 years and a really, really, really bad day at work to fully appreciate it. Of course, the ultimate irony is that this is the song Journey chose to name their fan forums on their official website.

*As I edit this post for publication, the title track popped up on iTunes. A good sign I should include this old lost article. I do think now, in 2014, side two of "Frontiers" is my favorite. Though, to be fair, I haven't listened to the whole album in awhile. Probably should do something about that!

December 2004: Another Rockin' Roll Report

Somewhere in the Caribbean Sea
Carnival Cruise Ship Triumph

In addition to the "Rockin' Roll Report" I filed, I wrote this piece for JourneyDigest.com using my notes from the cruise diary I kept.
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Come sail away, come sail away…

Okay, Styx had the most popular song on the Rock and Roll Holiday Escape Cruise, but Journey had the biggest group of screaming fans. From the cheers when Journey’s name was mentioned at the first cocktail party, to the lines that formed hours before their show began, it was clear there were lots of Journey fans aboard the Carnival Triumph.

When I first heard about this cruise to the Western Caribbean back in June, my first thought was “What a great opportunity! How can I possibly do it?!” After having spent a considerable amount of my vacation time the past 7 years trotting around the US seeing Journey shows, I could actually go on vacation with Journey! How much better could it get – 7 days in a tropical paradise and three excellent rock bands providing the entertainment!

The Friday after Thanksgiving, I hopped a plane to Miami to meet up with my roommate Janice and a whole slew of Journey pals for a vacation I will never forget. We knew going in that the bands wouldn’t be on the ship the whole time, but a week long party with so many friends was something to enjoy. Once we set sail Saturday afternoon, the “Rock and Rollers” had a private cocktail party to meet the other fans on board. We managed to round up a bunch of Back Talkers for a group photo, despite not being able to find any of the contingent that had traveled from the UK. I felt rather sorry for the poor woman who volunteered to take our picture – she and her husband wound up with about 12 cameras, and we were all blind from the flashes.

Our cocktail party was held in the Rome Lounge – the main showroom for the ship that held about 1,400 people. It was one of the smallest places I’d seen Journey in and the idea of seeing the band perform in such an intimate environment was exciting. It was also unlike any venue I had ever seen any rock concert. Instead of individual seats bolted together, there were rows of soft couches with small cocktail tables every few feet and lots of room between the rows – suitable for waiters to walk through bringing drinks.

We cruised from Miami to Cozumel where Styx and REO Speedwagon boarded the ship on Monday. Styx was the first performer of the trip and their Question & Answer session set the tone for the ones to follow and gave the “Rock and Rollers” a sense of what the week to come would be like. Fans from around the world got the opportunity to ask questions and were greeted with warm and enthusiastic responses. This was something that would occur with each successive band, and made the trip feel like a shared conversation with old friends. This was followed later the same night with our first concert, and finding places for the 1,200 or so people to line up for the general admission seating was an interesting challenge on a cruise ship.

Styx left the ship after their show, which left fans to spot members of REO Speedwagon and Journey’s crew around the ship. Journey’s crew was a lot easier to find and so they became some of the most popular people on the ship! A day just didn’t seem complete with out a Rocko sighting or a chat with Jim (with his one red and one green shoes.) I even had the opportunity to chat with a couple members of the crew on a snorkeling excursion in Grand Cayman!

Journey finally boarded the ship when we docked in Ochos Rios, Jamaica on Thursday. We were scheduled to pull out of port at 3:30, Journey’s Question and Answer session was at 5:00, and people were in line waiting to get in before the ship pulled out of port. Not many people took part in the day-long shore excursions if they wanted to get in line!

Journey entered the Q&A session and sang “hello” as they sat down, and we were off. The questions ranged from the familiar (How do you choose the songs to play in your set list? How did Neal join Santana?) to the curious (Who were your influences? Have you ever had an embarrassing moment on stage?) to the silly (Boxers or briefs? Where did the pissing baby come from?) The guys answered all of the questions with grace and a good sense of humor – there was a lot of laughter on the stage.

When we left the Q&A session, we had to battle getting in the elevators with the crew who was bringing the band’s gear in to the Rome Lounge. It was a bit surreal seeing all of the equipment cases sitting between the elevators and trying to get to the stairs. It felt like we’d all snuck backstage!

Friday was our last day of the cruise, and, finally, Journey would be performing! When we got up Friday morning, after a late night chatting with Neal and Ross in one of the bars, Janice and I headed over to the Rome Lounge for the “debarkation” talk. We arrived in the lounge a little early – just at the end of yet another round of Bingo – and found a seat. Bingo has gotten a lot more sophisticated than the last time I played – these games were played with a computer and the called numbers were projected on a screen. Because of the need for a screen, the curtains on the stage were pulled back, and the screen was lowered most of the way down to the stage. It couldn’t quite reach the stage since there was Jon’s piano blocking its path!

Around 3:00 that afternoon, I stumbled in to the balcony of the Rome Lounge looking for a restroom only to discover that the crew was on stage running through some songs – sound check was starting! Fans were kicked out of the balcony area before the band arrived around 4:00, but there were people coming in and out, so eavesdropping on sound check wasn’t too hard.

Going down to the main floor where eavesdropping would be easier, I discovered that the “platinum package” concertgoers were already in line and waiting for the show – and had been in line since noon! The concert wouldn’t start until 10 p.m., yet there were about 15 people sitting in chairs dragged from the lobby bar waiting outside the Rome Lounge. I hadn’t seen this for Styx or REO Speedwagon – I was amazed. These folks were already the first group allowed in and had access to the seats in the first three rows before anyone else, but they were going to sit in line for hours to get in and get that perfect seat in front.

After a quick check of the line up location for the rest of the concert-goers revealed that, no, there wasn’t a line yet, we were off to enjoy the farewell cocktail party. We had finally found the UK crowd on Thursday before the Q&A session, but alas, never got a chance to re-take the photo of Back Talkers. With the cocktail party, we got a great slide show of pictures from the Styx and REO shows. Since Journey hadn’t performed yet, all we saw of them in the slide show was a group shot taken on the deck of the ship.

The cocktail party ended around 7:00, and it was time to make a decision – get in line or go to dinner?? Janice and I got in line with several of our friends and dined on pizza from the 24-hour pizza bar on the Lido deck rather than eat in the formal dining room. I’m not entirely sure why we bothered to be among the first in line, since we wound up in virtually the same seats for every show, but there’s just something about “general admission” that makes you get in line hours before you ever thought you would.

By the time the concert started, the captain also decided to crank up the speed of the ship, so in addition to rock and roll, we were rocking and rolling! Since I had been asked to take photos, I was able to move up to one of the “platinum” seats next to Caryn (Journeycat) and had a prime seat on the aisle in front of Neal. I only wish I were as good of a photographer as some of our fellow Journey fans!

The two-hour plus show went faster than I could imagine, and soon I found myself balancing on a couch on a moving ship trying to take a picture of the final bow. The show was over, and in a few hours we would be docking in Miami and heading back to reality. We left the Rome Lounge and worked our way past the equipment cases once more as the crew began the load-out. Our wonderful week long vacation was ending. After a couple of drinks at the bar – mobbed with fans chattering about the show and cornering several of the band members for a photo op – it was back to our cabin and reflecting on a wonderful week in the Caribbean.

May 2004: The Die-Hards

July 2014: As the 2004 touring season kicked off, I wrote the following article for JourneyDigest.com. The thoughts still hold true today despite the changes in the intervening 10 years.

Every band has a contingent of fans that seem to live and breathe with the life of the band. These are the fans who can tell you the tiniest bit of trivia relating to their favorite band. They know all the words to all the songs – even the alternate "B" side single released only in Mauritania. These are the ones who pull out all the stops to make sure they get to a concert for "just one more show." These fans are often referred to as The Die-Hards. They will only give up on their band when the band gives up on themselves (and often, not even then.)

Why is it then, that these same fans seem to be the harshest critics of the band they are so dedicated to? Why do the Die-Hards nit pick every little thing until there is nothing left but a yawning void? Last summer, we got to enjoy a triple bill of REO Speedwagon, Styx, and Journey, and since I am a fan of all three bands, I started checking out the mailing lists and message boards for REO and Styx to find out what people were saying about the tour. While I’ve long joked that Journey and Styx were the same band with different names due to the similar conflicted history of the bands (particularly their recent history), I was surprised to find that the fans were also the same people with different names. There was a post on one forum about the Kansas City stop on the Main Event tour, and the fan was saying how “off” Styx was that night – not up to their usual standard. I was at that concert and didn’t notice a thing wrong with the Styx set; to my ears it was perfect. I’ve also seen similar comments regarding REO Speedwagon – most specifically how Kevin Cronin’s voice isn’t what it used to be. To my ears, he sounded like he did on the songs I remember from the radio. So what gives?

This got me thinking about how I respond to a Journey show. Since 1998, I’ve seen the band over 40 times, and naturally there are some performances that were better than others, but do I respond with disappointment when the show doesn’t live up to what I expect it too? I can honestly say I’ve never walked away from a show disappointed – I enjoy the chance to see my favorite band too much to be disappointed – but I know I have left shows thinking it could have been better.

A casual fan isn’t likely to notice the subtle differences, primarily due to the fact that the casual fan isn’t likely to see more than one show a year or follow the tour via the Internet. They’re at the show to hear the music, period. They will go home either happy after a night out seeing a band they loved in their youth, or they will go home unhappy because the band didn’t live up to their memories of a different time. The Die-Hard, however, will notice that the transition from Song A to Song B wasn’t smooth, and the bass player seemed a bit “off,” and why oh why haven’t they changed the set list in 4 weeks?

What is it that makes the experience of the Die-Hard so different from the casual fan? My theory is that the Die-Hard is looking for a level of perfection that will never be reached. They are searching for the one true show – the one that plays ALL the songs they hold near and dear to their heart, the one where the band is performing on a separate plane of existence, where the venue, the vibe, the sun and the moon, and everything between heaven and earth converge for that one perfect moment in time. What the Die-Hard forgets is that these shows are rare, if they exist at all. What is forgotten is that compromises are a part of life, so for every fan that wants to hear “Edge of the Blade” there are 1000 that want to hear “Open Arms” so they can slow dance with their partner and flick their Bic.

It is often hard for the Die-Hard to recognize that in a crowd of 10,000 people there are perhaps 100 people who share the same deep passion so common among the Die-Hards. That’s 1% of the audience. If that number seems low, consider that as of March 30, 2004, there were 735 email addresses subscribed to the Journey Digest and 7992 user names subscribed at Back Talk. That’s a worldwide membership. Even if there were no duplication or double subscription, that number wouldn’t fill our 10,000-seat concert hall. When you scatter those people across the globe (with the overwhelming majority being concentrated in the United States) it’s not hard to imagine that 99% of the audience at a given show does not fall in to the Die-Hard category.

As we look ahead to the 2004 touring season, the Die-Hard fans can hope for some changes in the set list – new songs perhaps, or classics not played in a while – but we should not expect any radical changes. There will still be a set list made up of mostly tried and true songs that are familiar to the majority of fans. There will still be shows where we come away wanting more or thinking that a previous performance was better. Hopefully, however, we Die-Hards can learn something from the casual fans – that a night out seeing our favorite band is a treat in and of itself. It’s something that we’ve begun to take for granted since Journey went back on the road in 1998. We too often forget there was a twelve-year break when we couldn’t see this band perform, couldn’t hear “Open Arms” for the millionth time. At the end of every tour, I can’t help but wonder if maybe this year was the last year. One of these years I know it will be, and I don’t want to spend that time thinking “well, that wasn’t up to par” – I want to enjoy a night out listening to live music from a band that has been a part of my life for over 25 years. And perhaps in letting go of the hyper-criticism we will actually find we get the one true show of our dreams.

January 2004: Reviewing Raised on Radio

As a contributing author to the JourneyDigest.com website, I was asked to write a couple of album reviews. My first album reviews were for "Arrival" and "Escape" in 2000-2001. It would take another three years before I got around to writing another, this time for "Raised on Radio."

 

The year was 1986 and Journey was releasing their first album of new material in three years – a lifetime between albums at the time, particularly for a band that had released ten albums between 1975 and 1983. Raised on Radio brought a different band to the fans. Gone were founding member Ross Valory and long-time drummer Steve Smith, a move that all now agree was a huge mistake in the history of the band. Would the fans accept the new line up and new direction of the band? Steve Perry had just come off a major success with his first solo album Street Talk, and that success is reflected in the songs found on Raised on Radio and in the production credits – Steve Perry produced this project.

This is a difficult album to assess nearly 20 years later. It’s an album that evokes a lot of reaction from the fans – they either love it or loathe it with very few people taking a middle ground. Personally, I have many mixed emotions when it comes to this album. It brings back lots of memories, some of which I’d rather not recall. This album came out shortly before I graduated from high school, and I purchased it later that summer after much persuasion from my cousin. In my mind I’d “outgrown” Journey – a band I’d loved with a passion a few years before, but the timing was right. I needed a new Journey album that summer, and it helped heal some wounds from a personally trying year.

Now, listening to it in the twenty first century, my reaction is two fold. The first is that it is very dated in its sound – this is something very emblematic of the mid-1980s music scene and, unlike nearly all of their other records, just doesn’t hold up well with time. The second thing that hit me is where the heck is Neal?? Fans know that the recording of this album was very difficult (including a brief period of time when the master tapes were held by the federal government after a drug bust at the Plant Studios), and that is reflected in the songs. It is driven more by Jonathan’s keyboards than Neal’s guitar, and as much as I love Jon’s playing, Journey is a guitar driven band. Neal’s lack of presence on many of the tracks is glaring. Save for an extended solo on “Be Good to Yourself” and the crunching sounds of the title track, Neal’s playing seems almost an afterthought. A lack made all the more glaring in the wake of Valory and Smith’s departures. While Randy Jackson’s bass playing is adequate, though quite different from Ross’s, the drums on this album are seriously lacking. The saxophone on “Positive Touch” should never have been there – as much as I adore the saxophone, that solo should have been Neal’s. To take Neal out of the equation too is to change far too much of a well established band and their sound.

Does all of this make it a bad album? Not particularly. It’s not a great album in my opinion, but it’s not awful either. There are songs I still enjoy from it, despite the fact it is the least played Journey record in my collection (from the Steve Perry era.) Lyrically, the album is fairly depressing – something I found comforting back in 1986 – and reflects what was going on with Steve Perry and Jonathan Cain at the time. Both had recently ended long-term relationships.

Reviewing this album, I’m surprised I didn’t see the end of my favorite band was near at the time. For the first time, the songs are credited to individual publishing rather than Nightmare, Inc., the direction of the band was vastly different than it had been, and I had always thought Street Talk was a bad idea. That the Raised on Radio tour ended and the band faded into the night shouldn’t have taken me by surprise.

A quick review of the highlights and low-lights of this album: “Be Good to Yourself” was a long-time personal anthem for me, and while some may find it a bit pedestrian the message of the song is what always rings true to me. “I’ll Be Alright Without You” is another favorite, though perhaps a better live song with the additional vocal and bass line used in concert. “Why Can’t This Night Go on Forever” has the flavor of the familiar life-on-the-road theme that many earlier Journey songs contain. And forever burned in my memory is this song over the closing of the Raised on Radio special that aired in late 1987. On the other hand, the title track is a jumble of lyrics thrown together from song titles of the fifties and sixties – lazy song writing in my opinion. It’s a reaction to the growing power of MTV, one of the few marketing opportunities where Journey truly missed the boat (though the live-footage videos from this album are arguably the best the band ever put out in the MTV era.) “Girl Can’t Help It”, “Suzanne”, “Once You Love Somebody”, “Happy to Give”, and “It Could Have Been You” are essentially the same song lyrically (and throw in “I’ll Be Alright Without You”) if not musically. Ironically what I found so appealing about them in 1986 is what I find so annoying now – they’re just too damn depressing, even when they’re up-tempo. I want to shout get over it already!

In the end, the reason this album stays on my shelf more than any other is what it represents to me – the end of an era that is gone forever. They tried to recapture it ten years later with Trial By Fire, but it didn’t last. This album was the closing chapter of one era of this band. The new era wouldn’t begin for another 12 years.

January 15-18, 2004: Neal at NAMM

Anaheim, CA
Anaheim Convention Center and evnirons

Over the weekend of January 15-18, Cheryl, Leslie, and I went to Southern California to scout out hotels and restaurants in Hollywood for Journey Past & Present. We chose this weekend because it coincided with the 102nd NAMM show (a trade show for the International Music Products Association) in Anaheim that we wanted to check out as well. Although it is strictly an industry-only show, we were fortunate to obtain badges through connections made while planning the Bammies Walk of Fame event.

Cheryl arrived on Thursday and by a stroke of amazing good luck happened to run into Dennis Erokan (BAM Magazine and the Bammies Awards) at the hotel as she was leaving to catch the last hour of the trade show. Dennis was kind enough to offer her a VIP pass to the Guitar Player magazine party and show that evening which his daughter just happened to be coordinating. Once at the trade show, acting on a hunch based on what happened at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, Cheryl went to the Gibson display area and found out that Neal would indeed be playing on Friday night at a Gibson Jam in Downtown Disney. Woo hoo! Wait until the rest of the gang hears about this!

Later that night while Cheryl was inside the Guitar Player party Roxanne from Back Talk, who is a music teacher and was at the show on official business, called Cheryl on her cell to say that Neal was right outside the venue. This was great news! Cheryl immediately grabbed Dennis Erokan and they rushed outside to see if they could convince Neal to come inside the party and play as a surprise special guest. After some pleading he finally agreed. Unbelievably, security would not let them in the show because it was too crowded! So unfortunately a wonderful opportunity was missed to have Neal play with Joe Satriani and several other well-known guitarists. The audience would have been thrilled by Neal’s appearance.

Not wanting to give up so easily, Dennis and Cheryl went back outside the show later and were able to persuade Neal to try again. They were able to get inside this time, but Neal choose not to play after all. He did take several pictures for Guitar Player magazine which hopefully will show up soon, possibly in the May issue.

When Leslie and I arrived on Friday, Cheryl informed us of Neal’s planned performance that night. Our original plan had been to see Steve Smith and Vital Information but he was scheduled to perform at the same time as Neal at a different venue. What a choice we had to make! Along with our partner in crime Roxanne, we were fortunate to have the opportunity to talk to Neal several more times at the trade show. On Friday morning we saw Neal outside the Gibson display area and we mentioned that Steve Smith was playing that night. Neal then asked if we could invite Smitty to his gig! We were all very excited at the prospect of seeing Neal and Smitty play together again after so many years. However, when we spoke to Smitty right before his show he told us that he would love to do it but because of his own performance he didn’t think he would be able to make it. As it turned out, the Gibson jam lasted so long Smitty probably could have been able to join them for a few songs near the end. What a treat that would have been! Barb (LAWoman) joined us to go to the Gibson jam, and we took a wild cab ride over to Downtown Disney and Ralph Brennan’s Jazz Kitchen where Neal was to play. With the help of Roxanne we were all able to get entrance into the show. When we arrived there were about 100 people in the room listening to an unsigned singer, JJ Appleton and his band, who were pretty good. This was followed by an awards presentation to store managers and sales reps for Monster Cable and Gibson. We were at a trade show event after all!

After the awards, guitarist Johnny A, took the stage. We couldn’t really see him through the crowd in front of us, but he sounded great. About 11:00 p.m. Neal was due up, so we left our seats to stand at the very front of the stage, which was about 6 inches off the floor and very small. We were standing so close the guitars and mic stands nearly hit us! Jeff Scott Soto and his band joined Neal on stage. They launched into a roaring 4-song set covering Led Zeppelin’s “Rock & Roll”, Stevie Wonder’s “Superstition”, and two Journey tunes – “Separate Ways” and “Lovin’, Touchin’, Squeezin’.” During “Separate Ways” a member of the audience got up on stage and took over the keyboard parts from the bass player who was trying to do both. “Lovin’, Touchin’, Squeezin’” was one of the bluesiest renditions we have ever heard! The set was short, but full of energy and the audience was roaring for more.

When they finished their set, Neal gave his guitar to a 14-year-old prodigy, Nick Sterling, who was absolutely fantastic. He played a few covers for a while and made us all think that this must have been what Neal was like when he was jamming with Santana at that age. Johnny A was able to get on stage and join him, but Neal had a hard time getting his guitar back! At one point he stood in the back and pretended to play the keyboards!

Once Nick finally gave Neal his guitar back, Neal came out and jammed with Johnny A. That’s when the night got completely surreal. The two played for about 45 minutes just trading riffs back and forth, playing the guitars behind their backs and having a wildly great time. A third guitarist joined them about half way through and it was a contest to see who was the king of the stage. A very loose and fun performance with lots of joking around and “whatever he can do, I can do better.” What a treat for the fans.

When the show ended around 1 a.m., no one wanted to leave. After the show we talked to Neal for a while. He mentioned future plans with Jeff Scott Soto and possible new Journey music. It was definitely one unforgettable–and historic–night!

Tracey Downing joined us on Saturday night and we had a wonderful Mexican dinner as we people watched and listened to the music that surrounded us everywhere we went. Barb was not there that night, so most of the evening was spent on trying to find Neal to get him to autograph a painting Vincent had done of him for Barb's birthday in March. We literally had to grab Neal as he was leaving the hotel to get him to sign it on the fly. What a scene! It was a close call but we couldn't let Vincent down. Mission accomplished! We hope you liked it Barb. It was a group effort and a labor of love.

What a great weekend!!

July 2003: A Conversation with Neal and Jon Part 2

June 2014: On June 21, 2003, a few hours prior to seeing Journey perform in Kansas City, my good friend and JourneyDigest.com collaborator Leslie White and I had an opportunity to sit down with Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain for an interview to be posted on the website. A few days prior to this interview, the Hollywood Walk of Fame announced that Journey would be getting a star in the famed walk which eventually happened in 2005. Leslie is the author of this piece (I served as photographer and proof reader) and I am reprinting it as it appeared on JourneyDigest.com with her permission with a few editorial comments of my own.

So without further ado, Part Two of the conversation with Neal and Jon.

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While some fans might take offense at the comments about the Back Talk forum, it's important to note that the comments made are about only that very small percentage of people there who are consistently negative, and not Back Talk users as a whole. The guys love their fans and love that they come to the site every day to show their devotion to the band. With that in mind, please read the remarks as they were intended, as a commentary on their frustration with some, not all, fans on Back Talk.

Leslie: Well, Neal and Jonathan, we’ve heard you say in one interview or another that you are very grateful for the success you’ve had and the experiences you’ve had. But with more than 30 years in the business, you guys have to have sacrificed some things on the altar of rock and roll. So tell me, is there anything you would have done differently or do you feel like you’ve missed out on anything?

Neal: Oh, you know what? When I look back now, anything that I would’ve done differently, I wouldn’t have wasted any time, okay? We sat, when we went on the hiatus after we came off our Raised on Radio tour, you know, Steve Perry said he wanted to take a break, alright, that he didn’t want to finish out the tour, that he was toast. And so, said, okay two years, one year. Well, three years went by, you know, and nothing was going on. And so then, you know, Jon and I moved on, and we did Bad English. We had to do something, but three years went by. And if I could walk backward right now, I would have taken…went back to that era and moved on with this band…like we have now. I think we wasted a lot of time sitting around for ten years…in hiatus.

Jon: Amen to that.

Leslie: I agree.

Neal: Hindsight is beautiful. Hindsight is beautiful, though, right?

(All laugh)

Leslie: Hindsight is 20/20, isn’t it? Okay, Neal. This one’s just for you. You left home at fifteen to go on the road with Santana. Miles is fourteen now.

Neal: He’s almost fifteen. In August he’s fifteen.

Leslie: What would you do if your children came to you and said, “Hey Dad, I’m going out on the road. I’m going to be a rock and roll star just like you.”

Neal: Well you know what? He is playing the heart out of the guitar right now, and I won’t be surprised if he ends up going out on the road, but you know, I’ve cautioned him about the industry and how it’s changed so radically. And the type of music he likes right now is like older style, heavy music that is really not selling, you know, and labels are really not interested in it. You look at MTV, and that’s what’s going on. He’s like, “Well, I don’t like that. I want to do what I want to do.” I said, “Join the club, buddy!”*

(laughs)

*You can check out what Miles is playing now on Facebook.

Jon: So do I.

Neal: Yeah, so if he got a great offer from an already famous band, that was already big like I did like Santana or Clapton, then I would say, “You go, and I give you my blessings.” And I would caution him about everything that I did that I shouldn’t do (laughs).

Leslie: Do you think it would work?

Jon: Probably not.

Neal: Probably not. He’s a hard head. You know, you have to have thoughts so you remember what not to do.

Jon: That’s right.

Leslie: And Jonathan, you’ve got daughters. What if your daughter said, “Hey, I want to be a keyboardist in an all girl band. I’m going on the road.”

Jon: Um, I would wish them well. You know, I mean I would. I would wish them well. I think they…you know…it sounds pretty far fetched, actually. Madison likes home too much. She’s a homebody.* Liza I could see doing it, “Goodbye, Dad.” (laughs). But yeah, I’d wish them well. Yeah, that’d be great. I’d be honored, man.

*I love this comment since things have changed so much since then. Madison is trying to get a music career going. You can check out her website here.

Leslie: Okay, but they have to practice for the recital first, though, right?

Jon: That’s right.

Leslie: Being out on the road touring can get pretty grueling sometimes. Jon, we know you get in a round of golf now and then. What are some of the things the rest of you do to pass the time when you’re not on stage.

Neal: God, this tour all’s I’ve been doing is sleeping. You know, honest to God, I’m like a really…a morning person when I’m at home. Like, the last six months I just had home, I got up at six in the morning, and I had the whole day to do whatever I want to do whether it’s doing something with my kids or I’m working in the studio…whatever. I take a bike ride, you know. This tour, we are going on so late. I’ve never gone on this late before in my whole life, I think, of any tour. God, like last night, we went on at 10:30, okay, and I was like falling asleep before we were going on. I’m drinking coffee.

Jon: I’ve got a cappuccino and espresso maker now.

Neal: Jon is the coffee man, he makes me like this rocket fuel that wakes my butt up, but man!

Leslie: So having a shot before a concert has a whole new meaning now.

Jon: It does have.

Neal: Look, I just woke up. I…the reason I was late getting down here…I just woke up, and if Aaron had not called me, I wouldn’t have been here. You know, I sleep till two, three in the afternoon now because of this concert schedule. And I really miss…I hate missing the days because I get a lot of energy out of being outside in the sun and stuff. But man, for me to be awake at night, I feel like I have to sleep until two or three in the afternoon.

Leslie: We’re glad you’re here. Let’s see, how would you say being out on tour now at this stage in your lives is different from when you first started getting famous? How’s it different backstage?

Neal: Well, it’s more comfortable. Everybody’s older, more together, so there’s less conflicts…personal conflicts. It’s an easier time, it’s a better time. You know? I mean, getting along in a band is like getting along in a marriage, okay? When things work, they work, and when they don’t, they don’t. It’s about that simple. We’ve got a lot more admiration and respect for each other, I think, than we ever did in the hey day when we had too much F-you money, and you know, just taking advantage of situations. I think we really look at a situation any more, and we go you know, we’re extremely grateful to be here, and that we have gigs, and that we CAN do this, and that people come to see us. You know, there’s a lot of people out there that wish they could be doing what we’re doing that were around in the past, and they can’t do it. So, you know, I’m just grateful. I’m like completely…and I love all these guys. They’re like my best friends.

Jon: Yeah, we have less, uh, we have less conflict. And the other thing I should point out is that there’s less sexual conquest going on.

Neal: ‘Cause we’re all married.

(Both laugh)

Jon: And happy, and got kids and stuff. You know, in the old days, man, there was all kind of stuff going on back there.

Neal: And you know, it was cool because we lived it for a long time. You gotta live it, otherwise, you just kind of wonder what would it have been like if I didn’t do that? I say if you got hitched up too soon and you never experienced all that backstage wildness…but we did, you know. We lived it, and we did it, and it’s like been there, done that, time to move on.

Jon: That’s it man. You asked the question, I’m telling ya. You gotta throw that in and spice it up a little bit!

Neal: Okay, spice it up! Okay.

Leslie: If you had to choose a career that’s different from what you’re doing now, what would you do if you didn’t do rock and roll?

Neal: You know, I used to say in the old days as a joke that I would sell ladies shoes. (Laughs)…you know, like Italian French pumps. But any more, I would have to say that I think that I could be a designer, you know. I could design like clothes, cars, whatever. I have like a designing type mind…or like a painter, artist. Something like that.

Jon: I would probably be a shrink. (Neal laughs) Or a chef.

Leslie: A shrink or a chef?

Jon: A shrink or a chef.

Leslie: Okay. I’m going backwards now to some other questions that we skipped. With each member of Journey being at the absolute top of their craft…I mean, let’s face it, you guys are at the top of your craft…Journey songs seem to really have a lot of layers to them. What’s the writing process that you go through for the different parts? The vocal, the song as a whole, the keyboard parts? And what does production add to that layering? Because all of your songs are really deep and have a lot of texture and…

Neal: I think some of our best sounding records, the voices were more layered than anything else. The bg…the backgrounds…you know, we used to do like, for instance, all the records that we did with Roy Thomas Baker, we took the Queen approach and there was ten million Steve Perry’s back then in the background vocals. I mean, he would do four times one part, four times another part, four times another part, four times another part. So it’s just at then end, it’s just STACKED. And that’s what gives you that huge vocal…that background vocal sound. But in general, the band…I don’t think beyond the record that we just did with Kevin Shirley, like Arrival, that was very layered, I think we were pretty nuts and bolts. It’s like the one rhythm guitar, two at the most, and one lead and keyboards…a couple of keyboard overdubs…

Jon: Well, it’s the parts, though. The parts all fit together, and they play in tune like an orchestra. Neal’s got kind of an orchestrated approach. I’m very much an orchestrated kind of keyboard player. I’ll listen before I go, you know, trudging into a song. In the old days, I would listen to Neal very carefully before I decided what I wanted to play, so I didn’t just fill up the space with stuff, you know. We’re interested in the holes and the space, you know sometimes space is really cool. So, the choreography, I think, is very much an orchestrated approach. We’re looking for a bottom, and we’re looking for a top. We’re looking for a balance, and we’re looking for changes, and mood swings. You know, I think Journey is very cinematic, you know, in the sense that it flies, and it soars like a movie soundtrack. And I think the sounds have to evoke the image if we’re singing about something sad or we’re singing about the love, then you want to have that passion in the song. And Neal has all these very classical things that come out. He’s very Germanic, you know, and when he plays, there’s things that roll and conjure up things. So we go with each other in the cinematic approach, and that’s where you get the layers…where this emotion that’s evoked, you know, in each song. We like orchestration.

Neal: Definitely, my guitar sound has evolved through the years. I’ve been working on my guitar sound ever since I can remember. Probably this year is the best, I think, that I’ve ever had. As a guitar sound, I mean, it’s…it’s HUGE. And I like that, I really like being able to hitting a note on stage and having it soar and not sound like a little buzz saw, you know.

Leslie: Do you feel like you have the freedom to do that now more in the new lineup?

Neal: No, really, I would’ve had the same freedom in the old lineup. It’s just that I hadn’t gotten this far on the sound quest.

Jon: On this better technology.

Neal: Yeah, yeah. And you know, I’m using a bit of new technology, but a lot of it’s old technology. I sort of went back …to the cord. You know, no more cordless guitar. I toured with Jeff Beck, we toured with Jeff Back, I played with Jeff Beck, and I go, “God damn it, how do you get that fucking guitar sound?” and he’d say, “A cord.” (Laughs)

Jon: Plug it in.

Neal: Yeah, and it’s pretty much…it’s that simple sometimes. You have to give up having the freedom to be mobile and run around stage, but you know what, when it comes down to it, I’d rather have the sound than being able to run up on the ramp over here, run up over there. You know, I mean I think that’s cool when you’re in your twenties, but for me right now, I don’t see Eric Clapton doing that. I don’t see Jeff Beck doing it. I never saw Jimi Hendrix do that, and he was a tremendous performer. All my favorite guitar players have always used a cord and nothing but a cord, so I went back to the cord. Now I’m like, spoiled.

Leslie: Very good. Continue to plug it in. Trial By Fire was a very spiritual CD. Arrival seemed to be really reflective of where you guys are in your lives. You’re married, you’re happy. There was a lot of really good love songs on there and everything. Red 13 was generally regarded as the freedom project…

Neal: It was freedom, ya know. It was like old Journey mixed with new Journey like what they used to call us in San Francisco. We were like the favorite house band in San Francisco before we were selling any records. They said we were like the Grateful Dead on steroids, you know? It was total freedom. You know, I just walked into Jon’s studio one day, and I said, “Let’s do something like this. I just want to play something like this this summer.” So you know, "State of Grace" came out. And it was like we went for it. It was a very experimental project in a lot of ways.

How I describe it, it was like feeling out how now that we’re not on Sony…I said, why would we waste all our time and energy on creating another full CD, right? When it’s all going to be experiment to get it out there anyway. So it was a total experimental concept, and we learned from it, you know? And I still like a lot of stuff that’s on there. It’s very raw, and it’s what we are live, you know? A lot of people love it or they hate it. And I think that we missed the boat just a little bit by not putting the main hooks in the choruses, but we purposely didn’t go there. We just purposely did not go there to have freedom, and let’s not do that cause we always do that. That’s what they expect, so let’s not do that. And now it’s like, looking back at it, we should probably have done a little bit of both. I think 50% of what we did on there and 50% of what we’ve done in the past is probably the chemistry.


Leslie: If Red 13 was the freedom project, what’s going to be the flavor of the next CD?

Neal: Who knows, man? We’ll know when we get there. (laughs)

Jon: We really, yeah, we’re not even there yet. You know, Neal and I have talked about some possibilities of mixing it up a little bit. You know, we certainly want to carry on a tradition, you know, of our sound. We got to keep that woven in, you know. On the other hand, we’re interested in world music, and maybe we’re gonna, you know, head off maybe into the land of that.

Neal: We might all of a sudden come left field and add percussionists to our music and add world sound, you know. We’re interested in breaking the European market. We’ve been to South America for the first time, what, three years ago?

Jon: Yeah.

Neal: And we had a tremendous experience there. Ya know, it was our first time ever playing there in Mexico City, South America. We had a huge turnout, and we had tons of fans there that we never knew about. And, you know, Jon and I came back from that and we were talking. And I was like, you know what, I really think that if we added some percussion…not to sound like Santana, but just add percussion because the percussion is just… You know, from my experience of working with the Santana band, you get somebody like Chepito Areas and Michael Carabello going with a drummer, and it’s hypnotic. The rhythm is hypnotic. It’s undeniable, and people love it. They love it without music on top of it.

Jon: Yeah, you know this dance thing, there’s something cool about exploring that rhythm. And certainly we’ll do that. And if it comes out and it doesn’t, you know, work, we can say at least we tried. And then we’ll try other ways. But there’s a lot of different ideas we’ve been scratching on, and just playing with different concepts, and we’ll see what happens.

Leslie: You guys might steal Carabello from Gregg, eh?

Neal: Either that or Sheila E. (laughs). Sheila E from…who’s she out with? Tom Jones. She’s awesome. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen her, but man, she can…she not only plays like regular drums, like Billy Cobham. Billy Cobham was the drummer from Mahavishnu Orchestra. The early John McLaughlin band from the 70’s. And Billy Cobham is the most amazing drummer, and he taught her how to play. And she hits hard. I’ve jammed with her, man, and she hits harder than most men. She really plays.

Leslie: It’d be really cool to see a woman in Journey, too. That would definitely throw off the backstage chemistry there.

(Coffee finally arrives)

Neal: Thank you. Thanks.

Leslie: I actually have one last question, then if Michelle has anything she wants to ask…

Jon: Okay.

Leslie: Going back to Spank, Kevin Shirley. I interviewed him last year, and I did a free association thing with him, and I asked him, you know, “I’m going to say a name, and want you to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind.” I gave him each of your names, and everything. I should have printed that out so you could see what he said about you, but you’ll have to go to Journey Digest to read that. So, if I say a name, tell me the what the first thing that comes to your mind.

Neal: This is a very in depth interview. You’re very well organized. (laughs)

Leslie: Well thanks. Okay, Ross Valory.

Neal: Nut. (laughs)

Jon: Wacky.

Leslie: Okay. Deen Castronovo.

Neal: Wired.

Jon: Yeah, I’d have to say fiery wired. Yeah.

Leslie: Okay.

Jon: Fiery and wired.

Leslie: Not you, Jon. (to Neal) Jonathan Cain.

Neal: Intelligent.

Jon: Oh no, here’s twenty bucks. (both laugh)

Leslie: Okay, turnabout’s fair play. Neal Schon.

Jon: Oh, wings. Don’t ask me why, wings.

Leslie: Okay. Steve Augeri.

Neal: New York. (laughs) Brooklyn!

Jon: Relentless. Just relentless.

Leslie: New York in what way?

Neal: Oh well, you know how…the attitude of the New Yorker. He’s got the Brooklyn thing going on all the time. And when he first came into the band, I’d be listening to him, and he’s like jiving me all the time. He sort of like throws out the hook, pulls you in, and all of a sudden you’re listening to this bullshit lingo, and he’s just BS-ing you. You know, and it’s like…

Jon: New York.

Neal: It’s a New York thing.

Leslie: Kevin Shirley.

Neal: Fun.

Jon: Uh, tireless. Yeah. He’s just devoted…devoted.

Leslie: When we turn the tape off, I’ll have to tell you what he said when I gave him Steve Perry’s name.

(All laugh)

Neal: He’s writing a book, by the way.** Kevin Shirley is writing a book, and he says that we’re in a big piece of it. And he’s going to talk all about it. He doesn’t have a gag order.

Leslie: He might by the time the lawyers get through with him. Irving Azoff.

(Neal and Jon both suck in a large breath at the same time.)

Leslie: WHOA! That was an audible intake of air!

Jon: Powerful. It would be powerful.

Leslie: (to Michelle) Did you hear that?

Michelle: Mhmm. (laughs)

Neal: Irving is very powerful. He’s also, if he’s not on your side, he’s a man you love to hate….

Leslie: Is he on your side?

Neal: …and we’re very…yeah, we’re lucky he’s on our side, definitely. Irving has done amazing things for us. Every once in a while I read some stuff on the Internet, and people are like…Irving as opposed to Herbie. I mean, Herbie is still awesome. He was always awesome, always will be. They’re two different people, but Herbie loves Irving. His first choice when he stepped down was Irving.

Leslie: When he stepped down, did he recommend Irving, or was that already in place?

Neal: Well…

Jon: We did interviews.

Neal: Yeah, we did some interviews…different interview with different managers, and Irving was the guy that we like.

Leslie: Cool. John Kalodner.

Neal: Eccentric, (laughs) but nice. Actually, he’s coming…he’s here. He flew out here to see us tonight, so who knows what he’s going to have to say. I’m kind of curious. I think he’s just coming to hang, you know?

Leslie: He is definitely more from the music matters than the money matters era.

Neal: Well, he is so fed up with the music industry. He’s really…he feels like he’s shackled. He’s not allowed to do what he wants to do, like we’re not allowed to do what we want to do, like no artist does…you know, I mean it’s frustrating. Unless you’re on your own. And we’re on our own now, and we found that this is the best place to be is on tour. You’re don’t have to worry about selling CD’s and how you’re going to market yourself. People can’t download you when you go play live, you know?

Jon: They’re learning, they’re learning, though. I heard something very frightening where they actually can record your in-your-monitor signal outside in the parking lot.

Leslie: Oh sure.

Jon: And make a mix out of it. I was like, you’re kidding me, you’re kidding me.

Neal: And then it sounds like crap, too.

Michelle: It has to be with your wireless, though.

Jon: Huh?

Michelle: It has to be with your wireless.

Jon: I know, they intercept your signal, then they make a CD out of it.

Neal: You hear the thing about Frank Sinatra, man? That they now are selling forty- to sixty-dollar tickets per person to go watch Frank Sinatra, and he’s a hologram. They reincarnated him with hologram. The full-on band is sitting there, the real band is playing in time, and he’s there in hologram form. And they’re talking about doing that with Jimi Hendrix, with everybody else that has died. And they’re selling forty to sixty dollars a ticket. It’s like going to a movie, basically, but you’ve got a live band. But you don’t have the real singer. You know, that is a sick, sick concept.

Jon: That’s spooky. But you know, that music was so good.

Neal: We’ll see if that flies.

Jon: That music was great. And you know, I’d pay to see that. I would, they were cool. I love his voice. It’s great.

Leslie: A couple more. Sony.

Neal: You know what, I’ve got nothing bad to say about Sony. Especially CBS before they were Sony. You know, I spent more than half of my life there from Santana on through Journey. I was signed at Sony since 1970 since Santana. They were a monster, and they still are a monster company. I think that some of the best people have come and gone that were there at one point. But we have a lot of friends there. So what that they didn’t perform for us on the last record. I think the way they looked at it is that the big mother ship is the old band, okay? Like the greatest hits record, Escape, you know, Frontiers. Those are our biggest records out there, and I think they did not want to…at the eleventh hour, they were ready to jump aboard on the new ship. But they did not want to mess up what was already happening for them…you know, confuse the issue to a mass audience. So I think that’s why they dropped the ball. But you know what? They’re a great company. If they get behind you and they want to promote you, they’re going to do it. But I still think that they have lost their way, and that they need guidance now. And that they’re too much for the flavor of the month and not longevity. I think you need…in the music world, you need to think longevity. When you see a talented band, you need to stand by them and be there for them because you believe in them. You know, like our fans do believe in us. You need a company that believes in you that’s going to stand there by you. And I think unfortunately, all companies are not there any more like that.

Jon: Two words. Stumbling Giant.

Leslie: Apropos.

Neal: That’s what I was thinking.

Jon: I could see this big…(puts arms out in the air and pretends to be a big, stumbling giant). Which way do we go? Okay, go ahead.

(All laugh)

Leslie: Back Talk.

Jon: Oh.

Neal: What’s that? (laughs)

Jon: One word for Back Talk.

Neal: (Imitating Perry singing) “Don’t give me no, no, no, no back talk!”

Jon: Three words for that…three words. Get a life.

Neal: Oooooooooooooh…you’re gonna get crucified. Now I already said that like a few years ago. You know, what kills me about…now I’m gonna tell ya. What kills me about the Internet is that, you know, when I first got in to the computer, which was like…I was a late comer, and then I was addicted on it. You know, and I was on our site all the time, and I’m reading. Everybody’s got an opinion, you know? And they’re gonna tell you what you should be doing and what you’re not doing, and everybody’s a critic. But, you know they can criticize, they can tell you what you’re supposed to be doing, they can call me whatever they want to call me for moving on without Mr. P. And then, when I go to defend myself and call it like I see it, I get crucified. Okay, and I’m not allowed to do that in the public domain because I’m somebody that is looked up to by all these fans, and how can you say that to your fans. Well, you know what? I didn’t say that to all fans. It was directed to one or two people on there. And this is what really pissed me off royally. It still does, and I refuse to go on there any more. I just…I can’t be bothered with it. It is too frustrating to me to read the obnoxious shit. Not on our site, but on other sites that have recently been taken down.

Leslie: Thank God.

Michelle: Yaaaaaaaaay!

Neal: VH1, since they’re sponsoring this tour, they finally got wind of what’s going on over there. And I’m telling you what, this is a music site. It’s not a site to go in and crucify people because they’re pissed off they didn’t do what you wanted them to do. Or make allegations that are completely untrue. It’s not right.

Jon: You know, the word that comes to mind, other than get a life, would be fanatic. And the word fanatic is based on “fan” and “addict” is what it sounds like. They’re addicted to being a fan. And you know, fanatics are like Neal said. They are very misguided in the sense that they think they have all the data and they think they know everything about everybody, and they don’t. You know? They couldn’t possibly.

Neal: It’s America. It’s freedom of speech, but so much for that. Look what happened to the Dixie Chicks, when they said something about they don’t agree with President Bush and what he did with going to war, you know? So much for freedom of speech. I think that maybe the timing was wrong. You know, we have troops over there, and that did not sit well with their families. I would surely not go there. I would like, veer away from that. But my true feelings…you also cannot speak your mind sometimes in political issues like that when you are looked up to and you have just tons of fans looking at you. You just cannot…and that’s just the way it is.

Jon: And that’s again, being so involved in what you want, and what you want to say instead of what, you know…when you’re thinking about the fans. And you wouldn’t want to hurt anybody out there. And I think before they said that, they have to realize why they were there. The fans were the number one reason why they were there, and what they said was hurtful to some of the fans and their families like Neal said. So, when you’re in the public eye like that, you know, there’s thing that…

Neal: But the pisser of it all is they’re going to crucify us, right? And they’re going to say anything they want to say about me. I’m like the person they love to hate, 'cause its all my fault that we’re still here, Jon. You know that, right?

Jon: Yeah, yeah.

Neal: And it was nobody else in the band that agreed with me to move on. It was just me. And so, you know…

Jon: Which is nothing further from the truth because, well, I’m just as deep as him, cause I was the messenger. I delivered the message to you know who. You know, I called him and said, “We’re moving on.” So if it was just him, why was I the one that called…made the phone call?

Neal: You know, when he said don’t crack the stone, the stone was already cracked.

(Michelle laughs uncontrollably, then Jon laughs)

Neal: Oh, she got it.

Jon: Wasn’t it fractured?

Michelle: Fractured.

Neal: Whatever.

Jon: Fractured?

Neal: Fractured. He fractured it a long time ago when he let go Smith and Ross, ya know? That was the demise of that band right then.

Jon: Yeah. Yeah, that was a bad move. I think that if you asked me again the question of anything that you regretted, that’s what I regretted the most is seeing that go down.

Neal: Yeah, if I thought of that when she asked me that, I would’ve said something.

Jon: That really, you know to this day, just stunk up the joint. I tell you what. And then, you know, not that he…(stops himself) we can’t go there, but…

Neal: And also with Herbie, you know. It was an ultimatum that he made to us. We need to get a new manager, or I’m not going to do it. And it was like…(sucks in breath)

Jon: Those two things are really not…they don’t sit well.

Neal: Yeah.

Jon: And thank God Ross is back.

Neal: Playing with his squirt gun. (laughs)

Jon: Smith still likes to…cash his checks. (laughs)

Leslie: Speaking of cashing checks…no, I won’t ask that. You can’t answer it anyway. But anyway, that’s all I have for you guys.

Jon: Awesome.

Leslie: I hate that I don’t have anything else.

Jon: No, that’s awesome. That was a good interview.

Leslie: Thank you, and Great to interview you guys!

Never have I been so disappointed to have all my questions answered. I wanted it to last longer! We had such a great time. Many thanks to Jon and Neal for spending an hour with us. Journey Digest would also like to thank tour manager, Aaron Dilks, for waking up Neal, and thanks to Amanda at ABC PR for helping us set up the interview. We do have one suggestion for Neal, who remains disillusioned with the whole Internet communication scene. If reading is too frustrating for you, just post! We would love to have some frequent updates from the road and more of the thoughts and experiences of the band. It might be one way to increase perspective and understanding on the part of the fans who see only the results and none of the process. It would also provide a way to bring fans back to your site consistently in addition to Back Talk. Finally, many congratulations to Neal, Jon, Ross, Deen, and Steve (as well as all the past members of Journey), on being selected to receive their star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. It is a well-deserved culmination of thirty years of wonderful. May you continue to rock until your hologram days!

**Incidentally, I wanted to give Kevin Shirley a chance to comment on the book he is writing so we didn’t give anything away before he was ready for the world to know about his upcoming project. He sent along this comment...

“I have a real love for all the members of Journey, without exception, which is rare for me, with any band. They are such wonderful musicians that I have continued to maintain a relationship with them, even though the "cool factor" of being associated with them may have hampered me professionally; and will continue to, if they were to ever ask me. Most importantly, I hope my friendship with them lasts until I die, 'cos they are some of the realest motherfuckers in the whole world!”

July 2003: A Conversation with Neal and Jon Part 1

June 2014: On June 21, 2003, a few hours prior to seeing Journey perform in Kansas City, my good friend and JourneyDigest.com collaborator Leslie White and I had an opportunity to sit down with Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain for an interview to be posted on the website. A few days prior to this interview, the Hollywood Walk of Fame announced that Journey would be getting a star in the famed walk which eventually happened in 2005. Leslie is the author of this piece (I served as photographer and proof reader) and I am reprinting it as it appeared on JourneyDigest.com with her permission with a few editorial comments of my own.

A little back story before we get to the interview. I'd flown in to Kansas City the day before and met Leslie who, despite living in the Kansas City area, decided to stay at a local hotel. We roomed up and due to a screw up with our reservation, we were forced to change rooms on Friday morning. This wound up working in our favor when, while at lunch, we received a call from Journey's PR rep and another from their tour manager asking us where we were going to be interviewing the guys. We had expected to be told to come to some place of their choosing, so were a bit flabbergasted when we had to come up with a location. The only place available, of course, was our hotel room. We'd been cursing the hotel up and down for screwing up our reservation and making us change rooms, but now we were eternally grateful as it meant we had a spotless room as we had yet to unpack from the room change. I'll never forget Leslie and I each sitting on one of the beds in the room waiting for Neal and Jon to arrive. We were both a bit giddy and stunned. When the first knock on the door happened, we looked at each other and took a deep breath before opening it. There on the other side was Jon, as pleasant as could be. We chatted with him a bit about where we were from and what we did for a living while waiting for Neal to arrive. He finally showed up about 5 minutes later and after some cordial greetings we sat down for a great chat. Once the interview was finished, the guys chatted for a few minutes more before heading off to get ready for the show. I don't remember now what those off the record comments were, but I do remember Leslie wishing we'd still had the tape running! After they left, Leslie and I completely geeked out and laughed like a couple of teenagers. "Look I'm sitting in Neal's chair!" "Look I'm sitting in Jon's chair!" And of course we laughed and laughed over having had two rock stars in our hotel room! Oh what would our mothers say!

So without further ado, Part One of the conversation with Neal and Jon.
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With the Main Event tour still rolling across the country, Journey Digest was very privileged to steal a moment or two with Jonathan Cain and Neal Schon of Journey in Kansas City. Freshly awakened at 2:00 PM and clamoring to get more coffee into the body, they were primed to share with us more than we would ever dare ask. I love it when an interview turns conversational. Incidentally, if you haven’t caught one of the concert dates yet, you at least owe it to yourself to catch Michelle Murray’s review of the Kansas City show at Kemper Arena, also here on Journey Digest. We are also privileged to share with you pictures from the concert. Michelle gets the credit for the interview pictures taken here and also for the moral support and background laughter.

Thank you to Jonathan and Neal for spending a little time with us. We hope they know that what was a simple interview to them will kept us smiling all weekend. I would also like to say that having a photo pass at a Journey concert was a big slice of awesome. Please enjoy the concert photos Journey Digest took of our talented guys.

While some fans might take offense at the comments about the Back Talk forum, it's important to note that the comments made are about only that very small percentage of people there who are consistently negative, and not Back Talk users as a whole. The guys love their fans and love that they come to the site every day to show their devotion to the band. With that in mind, please read the remarks as they were intended, as a commentary on their frustration with some, not all, fans on Back Talk. 

Leslie: Okay, the tape is on. Don’t incriminate yourselves, it is running now.

Neal: Okay, I’m going to tape at the same time, too…(plays like his cell phone is a tape recorder.)

Leslie: We’re from the Journey Digest, by the way. Pro-Journey. We won’t slaughter you, so don’t worry.

Jon: A friendly web site, so it’s all good.

Neal: Friendly? I’ve never heard of a friendly one (laughs) unless it’s moderated.

Leslie: Oh yeah.

Michelle: It’s the only fan site that is linked off of your site.

Jon: These are the good guys.

Leslie: First of all, let me begin by saying, the Warfield was absolutely magic. Very seldom does a band get to spend an evening with their most hard core fans and playing a lot of songs you guys usually don’t get to play live or haven’t for a lot of years, and we’re just wondering, what are some of your impressions of that weekend?

Neal: Ya know, that was…yeah, you know what? You’re absolutely right. That was one of the best gigs for me too. The music spanned from the early days pre-Journey…you know, when we brought on Michael Carabello and Chepito Areas, you know, and we got to do the Santana stuff with Jon singing, and I got to sing a tune. It was like, it goes way back, and it just shows you how long we’ve been around. And I’m looking forward to, like when we finish up this tour here on a triple bill, you know, we’re talking about staying out a couple of extra months and doing some shows by ourselves. I’m looking forward to going back and getting into that stuff again. And also, what’s really cool about it is on this tour, we’ve found that the audience is very different. I think about close to 45 – 50% of the audience is ours and the rest of it is for Styx and REO. And so, they want to hear greatest hits, and they paid for the ticket, so we gotta play the greatest hits. If we veer too far away from it, it’s…we lose them. It goes over their head, and you can just feel it. We’ve been throwing in stuff every night…yeah, it’s like (whistles and makes motion over head with hand like songs flying past) you know, I mean they just don’t get it, so I mean you have to play what they do get. But I am looking forward to getting back and playing the more obscure songs that we have on this record that we’ve worked up but we haven’t had a chance to play cause we don’t have time to play.

Jon: We you know, truly, to have Aynsley with you, and to see Gregg for the presentation of the Walk of Fame there, and then the mayor, and the fans, and all coming together. I think, you know, that night, I mean it really hit me, we really represent San Francisco…all over the country, all over the world. And our video proves that, ya know…with Lights, like there it is. I’ve had people that moved from the Bay Area that live in other places now that start bawling when they see that. You see them going (makes voice and face like crying), “I used to live there.” You know, and so we’ve come to represent a city. And that was kind of a celebration…that night was kind of a celebration of…you know, kind of a thirty-year cap, you know, of something that Neal and Ross and Gregg started so long ago with Herbie. It was an honor for me to go up and sing. An entity that existed and thrived and reinvented itself so many times and yet still has been accepted, you know, with open arms.


Neal and Jon: (both laugh)

Leslie: It wouldn’t be a Journey Interview without a few puns.

Jon: Yeah, there ya go.

Leslie: Of course, everyone and their mother is clamoring for a DVD of that show, and there were cameras…

Neal: Yeah, you know what? The good news is it was all documented. The day before, uh, when we were inducted into the Rock Walk of Fame in San Francisco with Willie Brown and Herbie and Aynsley…the only thing that could’ve made that better is if Smith and Perry had showed up.

Jon: Yeah.

Neal: You know, but they were invited, and they chose not to show up. But uh, it is all documented. It’s recorded. We recorded the whole evening, and uh, we’ve got a lot of stuff in the can right now, and we’re continuing to record every night. So, we’ve got two years ago, right Jon? When we toured with Peter Frampton, when we played a lot of Arrival material that we’re not even playing this tour…at all.

Jon: It’s great. Great footage.

Neal: And we played a TON of that stuff on that tour. And so that is all recorded and sitting there. And all we need to do is go through it. I know the Warfield show is going to be awesome, and we’ve got everything from this tour that we’re still doing. We’ve got like two or three floaters every night that we put in different songs. And so, by the end of it when we get down to it and actually look at it, I think it’s going to be a healthy little DVD.

Leslie: Cool. Even just the Warfield. I think half of us would pay, like hundreds to have the DVD of that night.*

Neal: Well maybe we should just do the Warfield. (laughs)

Leslie: Yeah. Unbelievable.

Michelle: It will truly fly off the shelves.

Jon: Oh, okay.

*Unfortunately this DVD was never produced. The only footage available was assembled by the Journey Past & Present organizing committee which we were only allowed to share with the people who paid to attend our gathering.

Leslie: Oh man. This year more than ever, it seems like your fans have really been involved in Journey. You’ve got Christopher Payne who did your cover and drum artwork with Red 13. There’s Rob Rennert and Rick Stamey who have done artwork for some items in Journey Swag. Cat and CJ you’ve got running the web site. You’ve got fans like Michelle here who get your plaques for ya in the sidewalk. And that same committee is going to be working very hard again this year to get you something else that’s gold and shiny and goes in the ground, aren’t they?

Jon: (starts laughing)

Leslie: So tell me about that.

Jon: We’re excited…it was really…I was shocked to hear it, but that’s just the way you guys are, really. A band that has fans like you guys, it’s like having gold, you know? And uh, people ask me, “Why do you do this?” and I said, “Cause we have this loyal force that just kind of eggs us on. And they show up, and they support us over the years,” and uh, that’s why you’re away from your kids. That’s why you do it. Because you guys you know, you help us.

Neal: You can’t pay for that. You can not hire a publicist. You try. I’m not shitting you. You cannot hire a pub…the highest paid publicist, which we’ve had and we fired…you know, I mean because things were not getting done, and what Michelle and the rest of the girls have done is outstanding.*

*I'm quite sure I was beet red at this point. It was still pretty cool to hear.  I wouldn't have minded getting paid for it though!

Jon: Yeah.

Neal: And it just…there’s no type of payment you can get for that. It’s unbelievable….the dedication and devotion and surrender and…shit, forget about it.

Jon: I’m blown away.

Leslie: You pay. You pay in music.

Neal: And also, it’s looking like now that this is all unfolding, right? Like, after this many years I think it’s only a matter of time before you work on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame* (laughs). It’s inevitable that that’s gonna happen now.

Leslie: Don’t say that in front of Michelle, cause she’ll start a nervous breakdown here!

(All laugh)

Michelle: We’ll survive.

*While there was a campaign to get Journey inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that ran from about 2004-2006, the group fizzled out with out much success.  Fortunately in 2016 Journey was nominated for and selected to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as part of the class of 2017.

Leslie: Yeah, we’ll make it. How did you guys find out about it, though? Where were you when you found out?

Jon: Indianapolis, I think. We were in Indianapolis and [our tour manager] JT told me.

Neal: I’d gotten a call from a friend that has a friend that works in the entity there in Hollywood, and uh, left me a message. And then later that day, I talked to our management, Tom Consolo, and he told me the same thing. And I thought it was the Rock Walk of Fame in front of Guitar Center because I just…that’s what I assumed, because a good friend of mine, Dave Weiderman, that manages that store down there, he told me that he’s been wanting us to do that forever.

Jon: Yeah.

Neal: So that, that’s another thing that’s probably going to happen very soon. Um, it’s just once again, you know, you can’t get all the guys in order to show up.

Leslie: Yeah, well ya know, you do what you can.

Neal: Yeah, you do what you can.

Leslie: You guys skipped sound check in Sacramento, and in Michigan you were skipping it, and again today, we’re here instead of sound check. When do you decide when you’re going to do sound check and when not?

Jon: Load in. The load-ins are harry sometimes for a rock and rolling company. And uh, the logistics of the three bands and all those trucks, and the time…the rigging also is a big deal, cause those guys gotta go, you know, a hundred feet up in the air and hang points and stuff for the PA. And each hall is a different kettle of fish, so they’ve gotta like, you know, rumble it together and get the points hung first and the trucks ready to go. It’s a huge, huge, huge job. It’s like a big three-ring circus. This is a three-ring circus.

Neal: It’s hard. You should watch backstage…

Jon: Unbelievable.

Neal: …what these guys do between every set. They are humpin’ it. You would not believe the amount of equipment that’s backstage that comes on and off after every band plays. I watch it every night, and I’m like, “No way.” And it’s amazing how they got so organized and put everything in racks so they can roll everything on, but still, it’s a lot of movement, and it’s a lot of equipment that needs to be rolled on and off.

Jon: Yeah, I mean like my piano is like almost 2,000 pounds with all that crap…

Neal: (laughs)

Leslie: The Whale.

Jon: …it’s a huge condo that moves around, you know, and they just move it. Thank God we’ve got it all on wheels, but that’s why we skip sound check because…they’ve got…like I said, each hall is a different adapt in advance, and they have to look at pictures on the Internet and guys remember all this stuff…where they’re gonna park, who’s gonna load/unload first, how it all goes off. If you go there early in the morning and watch it, it’s just like, “Whoa.”

Neal: Do you guys have a coffee machine in here? You mind if I have some of your coffee? (laughs) I’ll pay you for it!

Leslie: If we don’t we’ll room service it for you.

(The search for coffee ensues.)

Leslie: Jonathan, you caused quite a stir earlier this month when you said in an interview that Journey is watching with interest to see how the Sanctuary label does with the new Styx CD, Cyclorama. One of the things that you said was, “It’s nice to have a record company that believes in you. That’s more important than anything.” Do you think that’s what happened with Sony? My question is, did they just stop believing in the band Journey?

Jon: I think they stopped …see they stopped promoting Journey. Because it stopped being imaginative, you know? When you have a band like us, you need a special kind of unit that can promote to our audience…not just throw it out there, ya know? We…I just think that the record companies are going to have to figure out a way to promote this music because it’s selling on the street. They’re missing the boat. See, the thing is to me, that you have to have a different approach to selling Journey than you do to selling Britney Spears. It’s way different.

Neal: And you have to use your imagination.

Jon: Whoa…you know? So, what they’re lacking is that in marketing, you know. And what makes me mad is that, hey, they can go out and sell Journey with the Essentials, right? And do a great job. Why wasn’t that done with Arrival? Why did they waste money in stupid places when they could’ve done the same thing …they just showed me how to do it, you know. They bought that stuff on TV, they sold the heck out of Essentials, right? That’s what makes me mad is that…why wasn’t that done with Arrival? Why wasn’t that same approach…? Why did they waste money…? They told us they spent two million dollars…where?

Neal: Yeah, right.

Jon: We’re like, where did they do it? So that lacks imagination. What my point is…is that they need to figure it out. And until they figure it out, we’re not going to make a record.

Neal: Yeah also, I really believe that major record companies have lost their way. They have shifted gears…um, and you look at a brand new band like Linkin’ Park, okay? They sold eight million records on their first record because the company was behind them. Now the second record comes out, and they’re getting ready to go out on Metallica tour, and their record is dead. It’s a good record. It sounds exactly like them. Okay, I heard a couple songs up, and I went, “What a great record. These guys are going to do well,” but the company, what they do anymore…they are not interested in longevity. And while they were interested in longevity, that’s how Journey did so well, because they went, “This is a longevity band.” And you know, “These guys are going to be around for a long time.” And now we’re considered classic rock, alright? So, they are not interested in that any more. They want the flavor of the month. They grab a band like Linkin’ Park, and pump the shit out of them. And then they get the record out there, and then the next month it’s like, okay, who’s hot this month? And they drop them like a cold potato, and they go on to the next act. And they just move, and they’re not interested in keeping the long-term relationship. I think they’re really fucking up, big time.

Leslie: It’s money driven, not music driven any more.

Jon: Well yeah, when you look at what people are going to see, it kind of proves that there is a demand for this music. Now, the record companies are probably now sitting back going, “Well wait a minute…,” you know, trying to figure out…

Neal: (starts laughing) So’s Clear Channel.

Jon: …you know, it wouldn’t surprise me if, you know, Sony came back to us and said, you know, we want to sign you guys again in the future.

Leslie: And you would say…?

Jon: Well, why?

Neal: Yeah. Why?

Jon: Tell us why.

Neal: You know, the only thing…the only reason I think anybody would sign or anybody should sign with a major label any more is if they’re a brand new band, okay, and they want to get out there, and the label is willing to spend millions of dollars to promote you to make people know who you are. At this point, we have like so many built in fans, as we’re finding out on this tour, and we’re doing…like phenomenal live concert business with the other two bands. And you know, at this point you go, why would we sign back with a major label? They’re not going to put millions of dollars into us because it’s a no-brainer for us…or for them, to sell us. You know, we have a built in audience.

Jon: It’s true, and it used to be where you put out an album, and then you saw…or you toured, and your album would increase in sales. But what’s interesting on Arrival…when we put out Arrival and we went and toured, it didn’t make a difference. People went and saw us, but didn’t buy our record. Well that tells me that the record company didn’t connect with the people coming to see us. There was thousands of people every night that came to see Journey that did not buy the Arrival record. And you go, “Well what happened there,” ya know?

Neal: But they buy the live DVD. Okay, so we found out that was the biggest seller that we’ve done with the new Journey.

Jon: So far.

Neal: They want to see the band live.

Jon: So that’s fine. So we have other ideas. You know, we have other ideas up our sleeve, and at some point, when it’s…

Leslie: DVD ideas?

Jon: …just, yeah, when it’s right, when it’s right, you know, we’ll figure something out. But it’s good that Styx is out there, you know, getting some radio play, and then you can find out, you know, who’s playing it. And that’s the other part of it…the puzzle is, radio has become so programmed, so research oriented, and so pigeon-holed, that a lot of these classic rock stations don’t play any new classic rock. They only play the old stuff. Isn’t it pathetic? You know, they say, well we play Journey. Well you didn’t play Arrival, why not? Well, it’s new.

Neal: Yeah, and you know, the deal like with Clear Channel is, you know, they told us when we went with them when Arrival came out, because they own half…more than half the radio stations, probably more by now…when you go and you work with those guys, they help you, and they put you on their play list on the radio. Well you know what?

Jon: They didn’t do it.

Leslie: And it is kind of political out there. The record pluggers and who gets through.

Neal: A lot of politics. Complete political musical world any more.

Leslie: Which brings us to our next question. Irving Azoff told Rolling Stone that The Eagles would be releasing their next CD on their own label, Eagles Recording Co. II.

Neal: Isn’t that funny he didn’t mention anything about us. I read the same article.

Leslie: Did you?

Neal: And I went, this just sounds like somebody’s following our footsteps. (laughs)

Leslie: Well yeah, you guys are like trendsetters, basically. Natalie Merchant and Pearl Jam…they’re reaching the end of their contracts, and they’re thinking about doing the same thing, too. Have you guys ever thought of forming your own label like The Eagles, and maybe even taking on new artists as an alternative income?

Jon: That’s expensive.

Neal: That’s expensive, but I tell ya what, if we could find somebody that wanted to back us that had the bucks, alright, that would take…go into a percentage with us… Hey, I know, I’m talking business now, and it sounds really boring for a musician to talk business. But, if we found somebody who had the bucks and wanted to put up the bucks who could buy us ads on TV, buy us ads in People magazine, buy us ads in Rolling Stone, sign other acts, pull the office together, ya know, I don’t think any one of us are interested in taking on that type of a job, but if we found somebody that was independent, and was independently wealthy, that was interested in doing a maneuver like that with us, I would be way interested in that. But watch all the calls come in now! (laughs)

Jon: Yeah, but those, you gotta be careful because you can get killed. You can get killed if you go out there. We’ve learned a couple of lessons here, and with Red 13 we’ve tried a couple of things and we got our asses handed to us.

Neal: But you know what, too. What we found out is, too, we tried to buy…we made TV commercials. We tried to buy prime time TV time, and you can’t just go, okay, I’ve got, you know, $100,000 here. I want to buy 30-second spots on VH1 or MTV. It doesn’t happen. There’s other conglomerate companies out there that buy up all that TV time, and that’s what we found out. And then they decide…when you go to them and say, “I want to spend $100,000,” they decide whether they want to spend their time on you and take your money. And then, also they want 50% of your residuals, even though you’re paying for their time, too, so it’s a catch-22.

Leslie: Ouch!

Neal: Ouch is right.

Leslie: Crap. That’s highway robbery.

Jon: Yeah, you know how much an ad in like, Good Housekeeping costs? A hundred grand. One time. One little ad. That’s what they take. Hundred grand. People magazine probably is two hundred [grand].

Neal: That’s what you need, though, unfortunately.

Leslie: Well, I’m going to ask you about the set list, so prepare yourself. There’s been a lot of discussion among the fans about the set list during this tour. With so little time to play, how do you decide on the set list? I know you already said you’re playing the hits because it’s a hits tour, but setting aside set list and time constraints, if you could choose based on what you wanted to play, what would you play?

Jon: We’d play a lot, probably, more of our new stuff. We’d like to play some more new stuff. And, some old, you know, some old deep cuts like, you know. But, we…sort of with the time restraint, it’s not about what we want to do out here. People have waited for two and a half hours to see the band, you know? And some of them haven’t seen the band for ten years.

Neal: That’s right.

Jon: And yeah, and they got baby sitters, and they got their cars parked way the hell out in the north forty, and they paid a lot of money. They’re there. We know what they want. And we put what we want aside on these kind of shows because, you know. When we play our own show, we got two hours…

Neal: That’s when we play what we want.

Jon: …we got two hours, we kind of do it…when it’s an evening with Journey, you’ve got two hours plus to just roll through it, and we gladly do that. It’s more fun for us ‘cause we can be way more creative.

Neal: Plus, you know bottom line, I want to play whatever gets the audience off.

Jon: There ya go.

Neal: ‘Cause it’s about the show. It’s not about, like we said, what we want or what I want. What I want is, like to be fucking Led Zeppelin in 1979 in that new DVD that I’m watching, ya know? (laughs) It’s like where he goes up and down, just like Miles Davis. It’s like Grateful Dead on steroids. I love that type of music that’s really jam oriented. But, that’s not what our fans know about us. It’s not what we became famous for, so like, you know, it’s okay to throw in a bit of that stuff, but there’s no way they can swallow that.

Jon: When you’re a famous steakhouse, you know, you can’t be going selling hot dogs.

Leslie: True. Good analogy, very good. However, we do have a pretty big fan gathering going on here. We’ve got Michelle here, who flew in from Cali, and we’ve got…

Michelle: Forty.

Leslie: Forty coming?

Michelle: Forty.

Leslie: And they did ask if we would request "Higher Place," and I am fulfilling my obligation to ask that they have requested "Higher Place."

Jon: Okay.

Neal: We could maybe throw that in. We have enough time to throw in one more song tonight.

Jon: No we don’t. Last night we went over.

Neal: We went over last night?

Jon: Just a little. Yeah, you gotta substitute one.

Leslie: Well the people all behind us…we’re all in the front rows, so if the people behind us sit down during "Higher Place," we’ll continue to stand.

Jon: Alright.

Neal: We’ll try to accommodate, but we don’t know if we can switch up our set right now. (laughs)

Jon: We’ll throw it in. We have played it this tour. Yeah, we have played it this tour, though.

Leslie: Yeah?

Jon: Oh yeah, we’ve played it a bunch.

Neal: And people kind of looked at us like we’ve got four heads, and we go, okay, well I like playing it, you like playing it, but let’s not play it.

Jon: And they turn to each other and go (shrugs). You can see them going like this (passes hand in front of face and imitates blank stare).

Neal: You see the problem is, you go on our web site, and all our die-hard fans are like, “Fuck! These guys aren’t playing any of my new stuff. They’re walking backwards! They’re, they’re…you know, they don’t know what they’re doing,” you know? They don’t understand. They’re not in our shoes. We understand that they’re our die-hard fans. We want to play them new stuff, but this is not our die hard fans tour. We gotta accommodate the tour, and that’s what we’re doing.

Leslie: But now if you keep scrolling down, you’ll notice that the other half of the die-hard fans are going, “Get off their back, man!” So, you know.

Neal: Once they do, we’ll be able to do that. (laughs)

Jon: Yeah, you just have to remember that the Styx fans and the REO fans are out there.

Neal: And they’ve never even seen us before. Honest to God. I’m seeing Styx tee shirts, REO tee shirts, and people are kind of looking at us like…oh, I remember that song. I don’t think even though the three bands were 80’s bands, and they figured that this tour…the fans would be the same type of fans…I think it’s really segregated. I think you have Styx fans only, you have REO fans only, and then you have Journey fans only. And then I look at half of them, and they’re just digesting. We’re making converts, and they’re making converts. So like, our fans are falling in love with some of the Styx stuff, and vice versa, and the REO stuff, and you know…my kids came to see Styx, and thought, “Hey, they’re pretty good,” and they know some of those REO songs. And you know, so plus the REO guys go in the shower singing "Separate Ways." They told me that. That was funny. Bruce says, “You know what? I was singing 'Separate Ways' in the shower the other day.

to be continued..